#4 - O'Connell's Irish Bar

On this episode we visited O'Connell's Irish Pub and talked with Simon Foster, who guided us through his journey from Ireland to Finland and getting involved with the Pub. We talked about the challenges and how things have changed in the city through the years.

We tried their delicious Guinness Beef Pie and by Simon's recommendation a Readbreast 12 Irish whiskey which you definitely have to try.

We also learned about some interesting connection between Native Americans and Irish as well as with Finnish people.

More information about O'Connell's: 
https://www.oconnells.fi/
https://www.instagram.com/ocstampere/

Transcript

Oh, yeah. All right, all righty. Here we are. Here we are. Where are we at today? We are at O'Connell's. You know how they say the joke that there's an Irish bar in almost every city? When I first moved there, I was like, get the fuck out of here. You’re telling me there's actually an O'Connell's here? There really was. 

Who is O'Connell's?

Good question. Well oh perfect person to answer that. We have here Simon Foster. 

Hey guys. How are things?

 Hello. Hello. First off let's get this started. We have here a whiskey that Simon recommended. 

Yep.

That's what we have here. 

This is a Rebrest 12-year-old. It's matured in sherry casks. It's been there for what? 12 years apparently. And it is from Ireland.Three times distilled. Lots of sherry notes in the nose and really smooth mouthfeel going down. Pretty awesome stuff.

Very smooth. 

Very controversial but to me I like it because it's not as smoky. I know people really like the smoky Irish whiskeys. I can't do those. 

Yeah that's one of the things about Irish whiskey is that in general we don't add the smoke so to speak the way of getting the malts roasted is done with a closed kiln so the smoke isn't permeating through the malts. Whereas the Scots have a open peat fire that the smoke actually goes through the malted barley. 

Yeah very good. 

I did not know that. 

Yeah me neither. 

Sounds really good. I mean tastes really good. 

Tastes really good. Yeah three times distilled gets it that really nice smoothness.

 Yeah.. Definitely for sipping not for-- 

Oh yeah definitely a sipping whiskey yeah. 

What's the percentage of alcohol do you remember? 40 even It's brought down to 40. 

Okay okay. So TK where were you this last week?

 I was in Toronto Canada. 

For quote on quote “work?” 

It was work. 

It was work?

It was work. It was work but it was a beautiful, trip Canada is beautiful. I mean let me not say Canada I didn't go through the whole of Canada I was in Toronto. Funny thing. The logo. Toronto City's logo was designed by a Finnish architect.

Really? 

Yeah. And his name was. OK let me not quote his name over here but he was from Vaasa, so there's a little bit of Finland in Toronto. 

Yeah 

I know that there's Finnish architects that have done like the Saint Louis Arch and stuff like that. Is it the same guy?

I think it might be, because it it was him and and he had some assistants. I think he had two or three assistants. So the guy who actually designed the Toronto City Hall died before it was completed, and he was very pissed off that he didn't get to you know like design the interior of it. But it's a good building. It's a very nice building, and the city's dope, and lots of restaurants and lots of things to do in your free time. 

What was the best thing you ate there?

The best thing that I ate there actually was some Jamaican oxtail. Ohh There was a little Jamaican dive just around the corner from the hotel we were staying at. The food was amazing man. It was really good. 

Yeah. Speaking of Irish connection, did you know the Ireland and the Choctaw Indians? Do you know that story? 

Never heard. 

Never heard? So during the 1800s after the Trail of Tears is when the Native Americans got kicked out of the land and they were forced to relocate. And then one of the US government officials were talking to the Indians and they say yeah in Ireland there's a big famine right now. So they all chipped in money and they sent it to Ireland. 

Oh man thats awesome

In Ireland there's a monument like from feathers. And then just as just this year.The Choctawinians they made up a monument on their land and then the minister from Ireland came over and they came over. So it was like a connection there between Ireland. 

That's absolutely awesome. I mean like the the famine in Ireland decimated the population. It was a potato famine around from the 1840s. And yeah the population of Ireland before the famine was about 8 million and 100 years later it was 2 million. 

Oh wow. 

Yeah.

So imagine these Indians they collected $100 I think $170 worth which today is like four or $5000. So imagine you're living in tents and you manage to collect money to send to Ireland. 

Wow. 

And then during COVID when the reservations were pretty much you know alcoholism and all that. So there was a lot of poverty also during COVID.So Ireland donated two million dollars to the tribes in America. 

Oh super stuff. Well hey what goes around comes around.

Exactly man. 

We wanted to talk, like since Simon's here and we don't want to take too much of his time. We wanted to talk with you a bit of course about the O’Connell’s that's why we're here. But also about you. Who are you? How come are you in Finland? Like I know as a foreigner you've told this story a million times. 

Yeah I've never heard. 

Yeah yeah this is something that I get asked quite often as to how I ended up here.The roots of the story isI was working in a hotel in Ireland quite a posh hotel. It was called the Kildare Hotel and Country Club and the country club was called the K Club. And every time I said that to Finns they said “oh the gay club!”. 

Gay club yes yes. 

That was one thing that came up quite a lot. The place is still there. It was actually quite close to my birth home and stuff like that. So I was working there I met this one Finnish guy and he became a good friend of mine and he was basically there to learn service English. He'd been to the Haga Institute. He was doing the ravintola tutkimus kind of thing, the restronomie or whatever it's called. And yeah he had to do a six-month work placement in Ireland. And like I said during that time that we weren't exactly working together but we were friends. We became good friends and then he came back to Finland and he immediately landed a job managing this place, O'Connell's Irish Bar.

Wow. 

He had his friend Jari Savolainen who's regretfully passed away a couple of years ago but it was his brainchild to have an Irish bar and I actually had the opportunity to meet him before the bar even existed and we talked about where the bar is going to be. It's in this wonderful city called Tampere and they still hadn't figured out the name and Tam was asking what is the origins of the name. Well in Ireland a lot of the main streets of the bigger towns and cities it's called O'Connell St. and it's named after a guy called Daniel O'Connell an Irish statesman who was in the British parliament because Ireland was under British rule then. And he brought about Catholic emancipation. So basically equal rights for Catholics. Before Catholics were very much legally subjugated and put down and stuff like that. It was a tough time and yeah Irish still feel a little bit of bitterness about that as I'm sure has been going around. 

But anyway he came back and his friend said hey would you like to manage this bar that I just opened? And Jamu said he said yeah sure let's give it a go. And he came up here and I was still working in this hotel in Ireland and he gave me a call and said hey would you like to be?A bartender in this bar that we just got up and running. I said well OK I've got some things that I need to need to clear up and stuff. 

What year is this again?

This bar opened in 96 ok? December of 96 and he asked me in January or February “Hey can you come over?” And I said OK well let me come over for a small holiday and I'll see how I like  it. That was at the end of March beginning of April of 97.And yeah I came here, had a week, had a blast. I did a little bit of bartending and then I loved the life here. I love the people here. The feeling in this city is really really good. A cosmopolitan city. So I said OK I'm going to go back home. I'm going to finish up my stuff and then start thinking about how I'm going to be able to move my life.

I was still a young young lad at that point. I was.20 going on 21 so six months later I packed my bags and all my worldly possessions basically which fit into a basic you know duffel bag. So yeah I was still living at home at that point so I didn't have very much. Anyway I came over and got set up, got into a small apartment and started working here and I said yeah OK if I really like it I might stay longer than maybe give it six months or so. If I like it I'll stay a bit longer. And yeah here I am still here almost what is it 27 years later? Yeah it was last week. I celebrated 27 years of working in this bar and working and living in Finland. So yeah…

Congrats.

Yeah. 

That's how they get you right? So I identify with this story because I had the same I was like “yeah I'll just go there for holidays for a week or two let's see what happens.”

Yeah. Actually it's pretty well known that often when people come to Finland and visit it first they tend to want to stay. Like I mean if you had an idea that you might want to live here if you actually do come here and experience FinlandThen a lot of people tend to want to stay. That's kind of also the logic behind what they have in Helsinki, the 90 day program where they invite people from outside of Finland to come and experience Finland for 90 days. And then after 90 days quite often there's people that decide that they actually want to establish themselves here. So yeah

There's a lot of good things going on in this country. I mean like I said there's a cosmopolitan society I mean like the.. the story of the Finns and the Irish is actually not too dissimilar. We were just talking about you know Great Britain being the “oppressor” and here– 

Colonisers. Well yeah. And then you know in Finland we got the Russians and the Swedes and a big battle between those two guys as to who's going to get Finland. And so I mean like there's been that oppression here too. Yeah

 I'm curious like you've been in the mid 90s. What was Tampere like? And because you know I mean in 10 years I've seen it change but I can imagine how much change you've seen it. 

Oh geez. Yeah. I mean like some buildings have come and gone and like the scandic just down the road that wasn't there. Actually lived in something called an Asunto Hotel. Yeah. I don't know how that translates. It's sort of like an apartment but it's a hotel but it's an apartment. 

Was McDonald's here? Subway here? When you moved here?

 McDonald's was here. 

Ok 

There was a couple of McDonald's. Actually one of my co-workers had a day job working in the McDonald's and then he came here for the night shift. So yeah I mean  like yeah McDonald's was here. There was even something called a Pizza Hut.

I missed that. 

Oh wow.

So mad. 

There's only one Pizza Hut as far as I know left in Finland and that's out in Tesoma for some bizarre reason. Middle of suburbia. 

I'm curious about this cause. We've discussed this before cause nowadays coming to the city you go to an Irish bar you go to… you know if you want to have Chinese you go for Chinese like you can experience many different cultures and many different bars kind of thing and kind of like different ethnic places. But at that time having an Irish bar, what was that experience?

 Yeah, what was the crowd like there?

Oh well okay so we're talking about sort of like this whole bar and restaurant kind of scene. What happened in the 90s was Finland joined the EU in 95 and that meant big changes for the way that alcohol was regulated. Basically Finland had to give up its monopoly and so on and so forth. And there started to be a flood of new beers. So it wasn't just your basic basic #3 beer, Karhu or Lapping Kulta as it was back then. There was all of a sudden this new world of beer and the Finns lapped it up. They lapped it up. I'm telling it was crazy. There was so many new bars. I mean like O'Connor's was one of the bars that opened but Oluthuone, Cafe Europa there were so many new bars that opened. Van Haposti. All these new places opened up and they're starting to serve all British and Belgian and German and stuff like that. All these weird beers, the Trappist beers and and yeah I mean like it's like Finns experience flavour for the first time you know kind of crazy that way.

 I remember 10 years when I moved here and the IPA or ipa as they call it here. When I first moved here 10 years ago it was like in the US it just started to be like you know a thing and then I started seeing Finland but honestly all the IPAs I tried in Finland were just garbage. It was just hops just for the point of being hoppy. 

Yeah.

Yeah. So eventually it got a lot better now. But I remember 10 years ago you couldn't get a good IPA from Finland. 

Yeah. I mean like well ok from somewhere near where you are. I mean like Sierra Nevada. 

Yeah. 

It was one of the one of the one of the big big new breweries to come in yeah. 

Yeah. 

I think they're California aren't they? 

Yeah. 

Yeah even though their name is Nevada.

 Yes Nevada.The water is from the Sierra stuff. 

But yeah I mean like they were one of the first big craft breweries. I know that they set up sometime in the late 70s early 80s but they were one of the big  craft breweries that started out. But of course I mean like the Finns at that time they were drinking like Guinness and and and some of the bigger English breweries like Fullers and so on but yeah those the idea of those those  IPA's sort of like developed and developed and sort of like came bigger bolder hops and stuff like that. I remember I think it was about 2006 2007 we had our first really really big IPA. And that was that Punk IPA from Scotland Brewdog. Yeah they really kicked off things with the whole idea of craft brewing. And then like I said it was a battle to get as like you were saying a battle to get as much hops into the beer as possible. Thankfully that's levelled out. 

Yeah exactly. Yeah yeah yeah.

How much was the beer in 1997? 

Well back then it was the Marks Finn marks time. So yeah I mean like so let me see when I started work here basic pint of… in this bar we serve only pints but the basic pint was was 18 marks and roughly divided by 6 that's three euros. 

Yeah 3 euros

Yeah. And the Guinness was then 24 marks so that's four euros so…

But O'Connell's has been around for so long and you've seen a lot of bars come and go in the city of Tampere right? Like what? What's the thing behind there? Like how have you managed to stick it out? 

Well I mean like what do we do here? I mean like we serve really good quality beers and we opened our kitchen back in 2008. So since then we've been focusing or putting a little bit focus towards food. Entertainment is a big thing. So I mean like how do you keep customers coming? I mean like you have to provide good products, good service and good entertainment. And fortunately for us I mean like the Irish concept is one that that naturally appeals to people because it's sort of like this whole easy going laid back attitude. Yeah but having great bar staff which I'm blessed that we do makes a huge difference. I mean like you don't want somebody impersonal who doesn't know anything about the beers. In a place like this I mean like we've got 22 taps so I mean like–

Wow. 

You have something for everybody. 

Yeah yeah.

I think what I really like is very international also. Every time I've come here I've heard English speaking, heard different languages speaking. You know It's not just like one of those typical Finnish bars where every bar is like a carbon copy of each other. Yeah. Definitely the character when you come here. 

Yeah for sure. I mean like Irish bars also lend themselves to the expat community. 

Yeah, yeah. 

Big time.

Exactly. 

Yeah I remember one of the first times I came here.I had a friend that I met in Finnish course. His name was Tom. He was a PhD researcher. So we used to come out here and just hang out and have a couple of beers. And this was the most international space that there was at that  time. And I really enjoyed it. And then later on there was improv sometimes. And I really liked the vibe over here. Good drinks good-- the food I mean what did we just have?

You had the Guinness beef stew and yeah that I mean like of course Guinness and beef and it stewed for a long time. Got some good vegetables and hey I mean like it's an Irish bar you've got to have potatoes. So it's totally covered in potatoes and got some cheese gratinated on top. 

So my American friends, it's a shepherd's pie. 

Yeah shepherd's pie.

It is very nice here because the menu is constantly changing and all that you try to keep like bringing stuff. 

We managed to get a new chef here in January and he's trying to bring this new style of cuisine and new way of cooking so he's been slowly adapting the menu trying not to leave our regular customers behind or anything like that. So I mean like he's been trying to push the menu into a new level. 

Yeah I think I think that's one hardest thing as a restaurateur myself when you change a menu. And then you have that one person come in “oh how come this isn't on there?” It's like oh. 

Regretfully I mean like like you know like that's the price of progress.

Yeah. 

Yeah and also certain things that they like but you know at the end of the day this isn't a charity business and then that price has gone up so high where I can't keep the price reasonable. Like you know would you pay 25 euros for that if everybody-- 

You have to have a sense of perspective. 

Yeah yeah so then customers they usually understand that 

Our new menu has had great feedback so I'm really pleased with what Alex is doing in our kitchen.

Yeah.

Shout out to Alex. 

Shout out to Alex. 

Shout out to-- 

Who's Polish by the way. 

Oh really? 

Fits in with the theme of this podcast. 

Nice one. 

Was he the one that worked at Soho? 

Yeah he worked at Soho. Yeah that's right. I stole him from there. Alex wanted to change and we had the opportunity.

It's called poaching in his industry. 

Yeah 

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you? Did it? If I remember correctly this is the first place that I came to watch Ismo Söderling the comedian. Did he not have a night here at some point? 

We tried out stand up comedy once a month here and it worked. But one of the things was that we wanted everything in English. So yeah yeah, yeah we had the stand-up comedy going once a month. Regretfully the idea didn't catch fire. But we still do the improv comedy once a month. Rene has been involved with those guys. 

Yeah I used to be quite involved in that especially before COVID and everything. And I think what you said is like it's very true especially on improv nights. That's when I used to come like before every Thursday. Now it's I think once a month, it's always packed with international people. Because you don’t have a lot of opportunities in Tampere to go out and have some entertainment in English you know that you can go and I want to watch some comedy, have a couple beers just chill. I think this is one of the spaces where you can always find something. 

Yeah that's… it's very true. And that's been one of our things that a lot of the events that we put on like this improv night we wanted it all in English and Trent Pancy was the was the guy who came to me with the idea what was it? 12 years ago. 

And they're still going. 

And they're still going yeah. But also I mean like we have this weekly pub quiz basic general knowledge, everything from geography to history and so on. But there's all sorts of stuff, all sorts of topics but it's general knowledge.But the main thing is that the questions are asked in English and Finnish. 

That's good.

 OK. Yeah. So you can learn Finnish here.

Yeah. Why are you looking at me? 

Yeah. And it's all on the big screen and the TV's around. 

What nights do you do that? That's every Wednesday at 7 every Wednesday at 7. And like I said questions in English and Finnish. And then we also have a bi-monthly theme night for the quizzes as well. That's… 2nd and last week every Monday of every month. And yeah the one one theme is movies and the other theme is the nerd quiz. So I mean like if you're at all a big nerd like computer games and manga anime all of these kinds of things. So I mean like that's been super popular and again questions in English and Finnish. 

Yeah I think that's a really nice opportunity to bring… you know a couple of friends. 

Exactly. 

A couple internationals couple Finnish and just come together for something. 

Absolutely. And The funny thing is it's funny because I think the three of us over here are quite nerdy to a certain extent. 

Yes 

In as much as Tam looks cool…He's quite the nerd. 

As much as I don't want to downplay it or anything like that, it's a hell of a lot of fun. These guys are hardcore and hardcore nerds. These guys are serious. I mean, like, yeah, like if it was, if it's me and the bar staff, you know, throwing together a quick team while Mikko is here asking the questions, I mean like…. out of the 20 questions we're doing well if we get like seven. I mean like 7 is really “ohh aced it!”. 

That's what I was thinking because this is very funny right? Because for me in Mexico between my friends and stuff it's like yeah you're pretty nerdy. I'm an engineer so I studied with these kind of people that are stereotypical like that. And then when I came to Finland.

Oh man they're deep into it. 

Yeah the people who go into… I like a bit of anime, a bit of this, a bit of anime. But people here when they like something it's like bam (full on diving into it).

Ohh yeah. It's like hyper focus.

“Bro you know everything.” 

Who is the voice actor for C-3PO?

Yeah yeah. At one point I actually did know that.I'm pretty sure I saw like like an Instagram post about it just the other day. Oh yeah? Yeah but yeah ____. 

Simon. 

Yes sir. 

How did COVID affect your business? 

Ah yeah I think the toughest part for me and the company in general I mean was that we had to tell our bar staff we don't have work for you guys. I mean like that that was heartbreaking because like our bar staff they're all long… they've all been with us a long time. Like it was very hard to just say “Ok please go and find something else while we get through this.” It was kind of brutal that way. Otherwise I mean like yeah we talked to the we talked to our landlord and stuff like that and we managed to get some sort of leeway and… but yeah it wasn't it wasn't nice. Fortunately the government at the time like they actually actually did step up to the plate and they managed to free up some cash to help a lot of bars and restaurants cope. So Business Finland was their way of dispersing some money and yeah so that money that we got I mean like that that definitely tied us over so kudos to the government at the time for helping us out. I wish the government at this time would be a bit nicer to I think everybody. I mean like I know I've got friends that are running bars and they're saying why do they need to raise the VAT rate and then they're cutting like Nipa at Maanalainen he has this bar and club type thing going but it's all under sort of like a... 

An association?

An association yeah. And they're having their grants cut. 

Ohh yeah.

And a lot of the artists and... 

A lot of the culture.

Yeah culture things are being slashed and I hate to see it because I mean like… culture is what we're all about.

Exactly. 

At the end of the day. 

Exactly. 

And when you start slashing culture then you're putting people who are struggling to make a living in the first place and you're putting them down to poverty.

Exactly. Yeah the government is doing some interesting things. 

Oh yes. Yeah. I mean-- We'll get to that later. I got some issues. Yeah. Well thank you very much Simon for joining us. I think you are a story of like you didn't come as a souvenir right? Exactly. So the whole time you tell me a story I'm like oh my God that was me when I came here. Yeah I'll come in for a little bit to see what it's like and then ten years later you get stuck. You get stuck here. 

For me it's very interesting to hear these stories right? Because I think you relate to him in some aspects. I relate to him in some aspects. Our stories are very different but still… There's always this like something there very similar like… a lot of similarities in there. 

Yeah for sure. 

Well I just got word that I can stick around until the end of the podcast. 

So there you go.

Nice. 

Throw in my two cents worth. 

Absolutely. Oh yeah. Actually the next subject is actually gonna pertain to some of your… So like news in Finland. What kind of news in Finland? One thing I read recently is that there's an article that the middle class is struggling. Lots of jobs being cut. Buying power is low but yet the price of everything has gone up. 

Yeah 

And I was reading an article where people are like a family of three. They're making close to 2900 to 3000 euros before taxes and then by the end of the paycheck they have like 700 left for living for a family of three or four. 

Yeah 

So you know buying power is a lot less. Yeah I think in a restaurant business where I talk to people it's affecting because you know people as we talk about Simon like people have less recreational income as we used to call it. You know like Instead of going out two nights they go out once or twice a month now.

Yeah. 

Or they save for something, a special occasion. 

Yeah. 

You know like have you seen that affect your business here? Yes yes. I mean like if I compare this year to last year it's hard to compare to before. Corona you know we can't go back much further but yeah yeah 'cause 'cause the numbers are completely different then. But yeah if I compare this year to last year yeah we've definitely noticed a slowdown. Yeah. But the one thing that's shocking to me is that I go to the grocery store now and I… you know, I'm doing the weekly shopping and pick up four really super quality bags of, I mean like, what is it with finished plastic bags? Jesus. 

The big pussi, the big pussi. 

I'm telling you, those bags are amazing. Anyway, I pick up four bags of groceries and I'm spending like 150, 200 euros. Four bags of groceries

Exactly. 

Yeah

Ridiculous

Exactly. It's crazy, I think, I think-- 

Well TK you have a family of like 20, right? You have a lot of kids. I can't keep track of kids. 

How are you still alive man? 

[Laughs]

No but I completely agree that the the cost of living has gone up and and incomes haven't really

 kind of matched that. And I think I started seeing this maybe the hardest when the conflict with our grand neighbour from next door started going on and the price of electricity shot up.

I remember during that time during that winter I had a bill for one month worth of electricity that shot up above 400 euros.

I have a friend who has a medium-sized house. I won't say it's even massive but it's like a single home.

Yeah. 

And he had something like “yeah my electricity bill was 600 - 700 this month.”

It's crazy.

It was like really it was really rough. 

Yeah. It was very hard. I mean and we're not even talking about... First we're talking about the electricity and the price of fuel was above 2 euros at the time. Of course things are getting a bit easier but still I like for me to go shopping for my family of ___ you know right now I mean if I walk out of Lidl with anything under 200 I'm I've been very kind of like selective of the things that I'm that I'm buying. So the cost of living has definitely gone up and I don't… The actions that are being taken right now for example with increasing VAT and all of that stuff is not making it easier. 

Yeah yeah. 

Compound that with unemployment with high interest with everything else that's going on on the market even though they're saying that next year we're hoping  that the economy is going to get better. Right now life is very hard. So in the in the context of what you were saying yeah yeah let's say you have 700 euros for a family of what three left after all of your bills.

Yeah 

If three people were to come to your restaurant how much do you expect them to pay on one sitting? 

Three people at least 50-60 euros. 

Three people?

Yeah. 

Okay. So that's groceries for them for at least a half a week. 

Yeah yeah yeah. 

Or a week if they're being very conservative.

 So to kind of like try to balance that out it's tough in this environment. So yeah we need to do better. And let's hope that the situation changes soon. 

I I think–

I think electricity I remember when I first moved there was like under 12 euros. OK. And I was 30. I'm like what the heck? I mean I mean that's first world problems. No but for a single guy I mean I'm not feeling that pinch of that. But definitely for groceries I used to be I used to order wealth all the time. I mean if you look at my wealth monthly it was… as a chef I come home late you know I don't want to cook you know so usually order walt the day before. Yeah used to order for two people and that will stretch me out for like 3 meals you know because it was expensive to begin with. So I always feel ripped off so I order a little bit more from a place I know that's good. I let it stretch out. 

Yeah the delivery fee then is for more meals than one. 

Yeah 

Yeah but lately I've been doing a lot of home cooking like home prepping. And for people I think in some parts of the world some parts of America you can still get by oh it's cheaper for me to eat out. Some places that is true. Japan definitely. But I think it's bullshit, because you know if you properly prep your meal out, yeah you can eat for a lot. 

Absolutely. 

I can't I can't even fathom that, that people can actually just go and eat out yeah and and spend less than the groceries. 

Yeah, it's good. 

I mean, like, like OK, I mean, if I go out, I mean, like, yeah, well, you said, like, what, 50, 60 euros for like three people. Yeah, that's not money I have to throw around. Like you know I have to go home and cook. 

Yeah that's the thing right?  Because it's as you said, as a single person maybe of course it's not a problem to go out from time to time but when you have a family and stuff the price just stacks up right? And prices have raised here like VAT like prices from everything have raised. And then when you put like OK a euro here 50 cents here…

Yeah it adds up. 

It has raised as you said I remember maybe before CoronaI was like 20 EUR got a bag for like 3-4 days. Now those small bags are like yeah what 40-50? 

Yeah there's a really big difference. I have no shame buying stuff with a discount sticker

on either. Ohh If it's like a day left I'm throwing it in the freezer you know? Yeah yeah.

Same here. Not only is it good for the planet it's it's good for the pocket. Exactly. And we're not the only ones. I can tell you like because we used to go after hours to go and check out all of the discount products in the stores. But a lot of times you go to the store and it's empty because everybody else is doing the same thing. I used to buy in the store next to my house and I think it was before that from 9 then 30% became 60%.

Yeah yeah.

Yeah they double the discount. Yeah the Prisma stores or the S-kauppa. Yeah. Nowadays you go 8:30. There's already people with the basket. They're waiting. 

Wow. 

Chilling by the cashier right. It's like what are you doing? Are you in line? No no I'm waiting for 9. People have stocked up and they just go early in order to make these savings. 

Yeah. And only that. I think that there is actually data about the increase in the need for food assistance in a lot of the cities and if you know where the food banks are if you drive there certain hours and certain days during the week you'll see how long the queues are over there. And it's not only people that don't have jobs or  any of that but these people that are working that still have to resort to going to the food bank.

Yeah.Speaking of which I mean like Finnish Red Cross have their have some offices 

right beside us here and for a couple of years they had the food bank thing going as well. It was twice a week. They increased it from once a week to twice a week. But the queue used to go around the O'Connell’s around the block around the back at the next block and then went down to Alexanterin katu and then came back up.

Yeah. 

And yes that's like almost a kilometre. 

And these weren't like you know quote on quote like homeless people or no these are normal well dressed people that are middle class but still struggling.We need extra help. 

Yeah but that's what's a shame right? These people are working full time jobs and then at the end of the month they pay all the bills and then they have no money. 

They have nothing left over. Along with the pensioners whose monies don't they don't stretch out for as long as they used to so they now have to go to food banks to survive. I mean like it's absolutely sad but let's hope that situation changes. 

Yeah we'll see. 

Yeah. 

Well on happier news I read today it's the story of distant relatives. So you guys know the joke. Well I saw this in community once. It's like you know, like US back in the 1700s everybody came from all over the world came there. So about 400,000 Finns that have come to the great US to get away from the Russians and famine and all this stuff that's going on in Finland. So you know they're here and you know instead of like you know oh man California, Texas they're like you know what Minnesota. Right along almost along the the line you know?

It's kind of like home isn't it? 

Yeah it's like home you know. So I mean there's a large amount there and then when they came here they got assimilated to culture with a Native Indians. 

Wow. 

So after a while you know they started getting it on.

So they integrated. 

They integrated. To this day they're called Finndians. 

Wow. 

And the Great Lake region is home to people with roots both in Finland and in the Native American population.The number is impossible to determine but there's still people there and schools that they traded cultures you know like the Finns coming

from the really cold, the Indians being driven up because… Everything that happened. America! Because of freedom. They pushed the natives into the cold regions. So they taught the Indians how to make skis and ski shoes and everything ohh and how to survive the rough winters. Yeah that's cool. And today there's still about 500,000 Finnish Indian descendants that live in the Minnesota area. 

Wow

Amazing. And to me that cross-culture is a pretty.. [showing pictures] it's pretty cool.

Yeah. I remember at some point I used to work at a place where we used to get on a yearly basis students that were children of Finnish migrants or not children but descendants of Finnish migrants from the United States that used to study at a Finnish connected university in the States. 

Yeah.

So they would come and kind of like…. do like a cultural exchange and come and see what Finland is like and maybe learn. Maybe they were learning a bit of Finnish in the university and then they would come to Helsinki and then they would drop by in Tampere and just kind of check it out. So there's definitely a long history of migration also from Finland and not only you know to the countries that are closer by but also to the United States. 

Yeah yeah

I mean I found Finnish…

Does that scare you or what?[Shows picture of one of these descendants]. 

He looks hardcore. 

That's pretty hardcore.

 Hey, on the topic of Finnish migrants, I want to add one more point. Yeah. We were on an educational trip when I was studying law at university in Namibia at some point. So we went to this tiny little border town called Opuo, right by the border to Angola. And when we got there, the church that was there was a Finnish missionary church And they were the first people to translate the Bible into the local languages. And there was an old Finnish couple that was living in this church and had been living in this community for so long that they had actually started teaching the locals Finnish. But Namibia and Finland also have a very long history.I mean, Finland was involved in their liberation struggle and their independence and stuff like that. But that was something that I didn't even think about….

I've always said like Finnish people are the most travelled people. Yeah It goes like, every time I travel and I hear like, you can tell the dialect, I don't understand it, but if I hear like vi***, saat*** , I'm like, they're Finnish.You know Me and Mario, shout out to Mario, we we were in this little town outside of Ensenada, this little dive bar, and then these these two couple walks in and my friend Mario's like, Cabron, cabron, they're Finnish.I was like, nah, I don't think so.I'm like, ok and they sat down. All of a sudden, they started speaking Finnish. And they were laughing so hard, like, this little dive bar in the middle of nowhere. It's like, all Mexicans and me and the Finnish couple walk in there.

Aren't you Mexican, Tam?

He's trying hard.

No mam**...

Yeah, definitely well travelled

How do you see here-- because as you said, there's a lot of foreigners coming usually to like these Irish bars is very common, right?

Yeah

How do you see the community coming together here? Because of course you organise some events, but I'm guessing it's also quite prevalent even when there's no events that there's a lot of foreigners coming and going.

Well, a little bit of history.I mean, like when I first arrived here, this was a centre for a lot of expats because they didn't really have a place to go. There wasn't that Irish bar, which brings the community together I mean, like, but back in those days, Nokia was up and coming and then there was a lot of people, a lot of engineers that got work in the city from all over the world Ireland included.I still have quite a quite a few friends who have worked for Nokia and have since moved back.There are still a few still around, but the community as such… I mean like when Nokia died a lot of that expat community actually just left.

Yeah yeah

It was it was really sad to see I mean like that there is still there is still some big international corporations like Sandvik have have a big office here and and Valmet is running well but yeah I mean like Nokia was a huge employer especially of expats in this town and to see them all go was a was a crying shame.

Yeah.

Seeing what happened to Nokia was a crying shame.

Yeah… I think now with NATO, I've seen a lot of people in the Air Force, Army, they've been coming here a lot.

Yeah, I mean, like, I think I think we have some friends in common, the Patria guys, Andy, Andy Van Galder.

Yeah, yeah, 

He stayed here even though he left Lockheed Martin. But yeah, I mean with the Air Force, the Air Force base out here in Pirkkala, ok, I think they've moved a lot of the stuff away from, but yeah, there was certainly-- 

There's still a lot of contractors that work here about Air Force, because I remember-- 

Patria is no small company in the defence industry.

Oh yeah, I remember every time I see a bunch come into like TnT or whatever you know They're always like clean cut you know and like very diverse--

Buzz cut?

Yeah, it was a very diverse group.

Short backs and sides

Yeah.They're like, you know yes, sir.Yes, ma'am. I'm like, oh, you're American? Yeah. Where are you from? Alabama.I said, what are you here for? I'm here for work. And I was like, what do you work for? Contract. I was like, as a contractor, a US Army, Air Force, Navy or Marine?

I'm a contractor's code language for yeah, I work for the military.

Yeah, exactly. and I was like, I'm ex-navy, I can tell you guys 10 feet away. First of all, there's no company that diverse. It was a very diverse group. There's no company that diverse.

Yeah, no… I think NATO has really done-- they've really boosted the military technology industry as well.I mean, the industry in general, but for example, Rihimaki is doing a lot of work in the defence tech sector, and they're trying to do a lot. And I mean, Tamperehas been there for a long time. and you know they're doing well.

So as you guys know, tonight I'm leaving. So right now it is six o'clock right now. I'm catching a bus at 2:00 AM.

You'll be back though, right?

Oh yeah, I'm coming back.

Where are you going to?

I'm going to Connecticut, New England area. Going to take care of some business there and see my little high school class reunion.

Okay.

But while I'm there, it's the US election. 

Oh, yeah.

So you have to vote, Tam and you have to tell us exactly about how the trip went in the next episode.

Have you voted already?

I voted already.

Yeah.Make America great again, baby! Just joking. Just joking.

I can't imagine there's a single expat that wants to vote for Trump.Because once you get that outside perspective, you realise how crazy it all is…

Yeah It's absolutely nuts.

And luckily, most of my friends are…, they're smart. But I know I'm going to meet a few, a couple of rednecks who are going to be like, yeah, buddy, Trump! America! 

I can imagine that passion's run quite high at this time.

Yeah, it's very… What I hate about US politics now is like, it's so divisive. It used to be where, you know, you're Republican, Democrat, neutral we disagree.I mean, all of us are friends, but we disagree on stuff. But we're not like, no, I'm not friends with you at all because you support that party.

But this is the crazy part and I don't know if it's because, for example, I think a lot of things got a bit more extreme with COVID, right? People got a bit more on the edge.

Yeah

Too much social media.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Going down the squirrel hole.

Yeah, I think it's partly that because in Mexico we have the same situation where it used to be like you can disagree on whatever, but now everything's so divided that it's you against me. If you disagree with me, we cannot be friends. A lot of friendships being kind of cut because of that, problems between families. It has gotten to the point that everything's so extreme.

Yeah, exactly.

It's just very interesting to see.

For me, I mean, like I think the US elections, the US political system is kind of broken because it's set up to be two parties and that's a huge problem. I mean, like when Ireland gained independence from the British, one of the things that the British wrote into the contract was was you must put in this proportional representation system and their thinking at the time was that that.. 

They're in balance.

No, not totally not if we make them so divided then the whole system will fall apart.But it actually made us stronger that we actually have to make compromises. We actually have to come together and yes, you're going to be on that side and I'm going to be on this side, but we have to find some middle ground here because otherwise the whole thing falls apart but but in the in the US system, I mean like like it's there's this gerrymandering and and stuff like that going on.I mean like they're carving out single streets to get them into the into the right area, you want these Republican voters and we want to exclude those other people exactly don't want.

So for people who are familiar with the American vote, it's not the popular vote. If it’s a popular vote, then it's simple, but it's not so popular.That's why they call us now the battleground states because they have more electorates so if you get more electorates, then those count to the electorate votes.

That's what happened in the last election when Trump won, right? That is like he didn't get more votes, but he got the ones that mattered.

No, no, he he lost on all of them.He claimed that it was all election fraud from– 

Ohh the last  one. But the one that he won,

He won the electoral vote, but he lost the popular. Yeah, yeah you're right. That's how it's set up in a very weird way that people were wondering, like, how the hell can this happen?

Yeah, it's not a popular vote. Yeah, it's the gerrymandering to those places where they know that they can get the most votes.

Al Gore won the popular vote.

Yeah.Yeah

What the hell?

So what is that called? Is that a representative democracy? I mean, because if the vote that counts is not the one for the individual, but the collective vote that is then put in by the state, that means that your vote doesn't count

It still counts. So the popular vote still counts in the states that don't have a lot of electoral votes. It's very, it's very…

I watched Matt's documentary on YouTube about how easy it is to tilt the system and that by adding an extra seat, you can actually lose two type thing.I mean, it's crazy, but my main point was that by having it so divisive, it actually pushes people apart.

Exactly, exactly

This us versus them and you push people apart.You instil  this lack of ability to compromise and it only drives hate.

Yeah, absolutely.Right now it's either you're a Nazi or a communist, no in between, you know. The far right thinks everybody on the left is a communist. The far left thinks everybody on the right is a Nazi. No, there's people that are in the middle, like me, you know? I'm pro-guns and I'm pro-choice. I like guns and hoo****.

And in the House of Representatives, there's a lot of people that are in that middle ground. But they're being forced to go further and further to the edges.

Are they the ones that are called swing voters?Because they're in the middle and they don't stand anywhere specifically besides for principles that actually matter.

But another thing is that they call the single issue voters. So I only vote on one issue.

Yeah

I want guns, right.That's all I want. Like everything else, you know, I want pro-choice.That's all. That's all I care about so like yeah, I mean, you have the right to vote, whatever your values are.

I know that they've talked about reforming the system, but when everybody's so far apart, they can't even come together to talk about maybe changing the way this is done. I think I might be overstepping it, but I think that America is heading, the United States of America is heading for the Civil War.I don't think it's unreasonable to think.

I don't disagree. Trump just recently coughed out that, yeah, I can call the military for the enemy within, the enemy within.Yeah.So basically anybody that you disagree with. 

The Pelosis and… I was watching the news about that, this one.This is crazy.

The crazy part for me is that a lot of people see that and they're like, yeah, this makes sense. 

The movie Idiocracy. That I thought was idiotic at the time, but I'm not thinking so much anymore.

I'm just curious, in your guys' workplace, do you guys talk about that? I think I think people think that, my friends think that, oh, what does Europe care about? Europe cares a lot about what's gonna go on you know, you know Trump wants to pull out of NATO, a lot of things, yeah.

Yeah so without you know, disclosing too much, I think that the American conversation is a part of a lot of organisations' strategy scenarios, right? So President X comes in, what's our situation with NATO? What's our situation with trade? What's our situation with that? How does it affect our businesses and all of that stuff? So without even talking about high level stuff,  I think that even just on our lunch tables, I mean, you can't avoid a conversation about, hey, have you seen the last debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump? And everybody's wondering like, wait, apparently somebody's eating  cats in where? And it blows people's minds that that is even something that is brought up on a presidential debate stage. So at the same time, I think that there's a lot of fear and there's a lot of worry and and that's something also that I heard in the in the recent trips that I've taken in different places that are okay so in the short term,maybe having Donald Trump might be good for business, but it's a short term thing. What you need in the long term is the kind of stability that gives the kind of security that allows genuine growth to happen not a spike in something just because somebody said you should pay more tariffs or or then having you know the people on  your you know, the guys that bet on certain outcomes.What is that called?

Hedging

Hedging, yeah so because a lot of the guys in the hedging side are like, we're going to have a lot of fun with this one.

Yeah, yeah.

So that kind of uncertainty is good for a certain group of people for certain things for a very small amount of time.But in the long term, I think in any country and in any environment, you want safety, you want stability, you want assurances that that makes money flow, right? So yeah.So it's scary. But I have to say at some point, it's the last thing I'll say about politics, because politics is a very dodgy subject. When Trump came out the first  time, right? 

To visit Finland, right? 

And come and rake the forest? Yeah.

When Trump came out the first time, there was a general sentiment from people that have experienced similar kinds of leadership in third world countries that were like, ohh wow, now they get to experience what we experience with people like this.

____ or something stupid like that, yeah.

Right.

You mean like he's one of us kind of thing or?

No no 

This is the kind of shit that we have to put up.

Ohh 

Now you know what it's like.

Yeah.

Because for me,It's a bit of the, when I see the politics in Mexico, right? You see like there's a channel that, for example, airs the Congress all the time, these kind of things. And you can see it. Bro, there's fighting all the time like people like fighting there on the…

Fist fighting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.Crazy things.

Mexican wrestling.

People come and like the last woman that was running for president, the one that lost, she became quite famous because she… they were trying to do something that's like, OK, now we're going to move the session to somewhere else.And she changed herself to the to a desk. And you see these crazy things that just like, what the hell is going on? For example, you see in Europe most of this Congress and parliaments, it's very civilised, right? And then you see that it's like, what the fuck? And then you see now like in the US with Trump and it's like, yeah, as you said, yeah, this is, this is.I've seen this before. I mean, it's heading that way.

No, that's hilarious.

Yeah, that was crazy. That was crazy to watch for the biggest economy, the biggest military might, the country that that is supposed to be-- 

The superpower. 

Yeah, the superpower… 

Yeah… to see that kind of like breaking apart is like-- It's mind boggling.How can we not be scared and worried? How can the rest of the world not be sitting there thinking, OK, so.. world is ending.

Yeah, there's there's a new movie on on Apple TV+ and it's called Civil War.And it's based around a civil war under these circumstances that the president, who bears no passing resemblance whatsoever to Donald Trump, has has set up 10-metre-high concrete walls around the White House yeah as he is losing the war.

I'll just tell you just one last story before you get off the politics.

So when I first moved here 10 years ago, I think a year into it, there were elections going on in the center here. And you know, my first time here, I see all these booths set up, you know, people hanging out flyers. So I'm walking around, hey, what's going on here?

Well, the elections are next Tuesday. If you want to know more about the person, just go up to the booth and ask.OK, I go to the first booth. Hey, so tell me, what do you stand for?What are you about? We are against immigrants and foreigners in Finland.

Okay, not this one.

Moving along.

Yeah, I was like, Noniin.

All right, that's all for me then.

But to see now that they're infiltrating the government.

Yeah I mean like the way that Perussuomalaiset, the true Finns have toned down their message, tone down their, their, their… But I mean, like, I think it's just a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Yeah.Oh yeah

But do you think it is, uh, I think we talked before, but I think. I think there's a correlation when Trump is in power, empowering those people more. 

Ohh Yeah, because I mean, like they're all feeding off the same social media.

And they're sitting in the same chat groups.

Nationalism.

Yeah.

Yeah.You had this comment both in the US when Trump won and then when Perus were like didn’t won, but they got a quite a big amount of votes you could read the exact same comment of like, oh, now we can say this. So it's like– 

If Trump can say it.

Maybe I'm the kind of person who tends to be a little bit more sceptical about a lot of things, but I've always been more worried not about the mouthpiece but the political strategist that sits behind and advises and plans all of these things for these kinds of political parties. 

Yeah, like who is it for Trump, Steven something?

The Miller.

Steven Miller yeah that’s the guy, ohh Jesus. I mean, like, like he looks like a Nazi.

Exactly. Pull the strings.Yeah America for American people. Yeah, what does that mean? America's for Americans. Sounds familiar, right? Germany's for Germans, right? 

Find those guys. Right? Stop worrying about the mouthpiece. Find the guy who's sitting behind, back there somewhere. 

Steve Bannon, 

Steve Bannon as well, yeah.Yeah Those are the problematic guys

Project 2025, Heritage Foundation, those are the-- 

And what was that British website at some point, or the think tank that was doing the whole social media?

The Cambridge Institute, was it Cambridge Institute?

Yeah, something like that,

Yeah. Those are the guys that we should be worried about. Cambridge Institute.We're doing all the social media mining and finding out exactly who to target and putting in the exact right messages into the right place to make them.

Cambridge Analytica. I think it was called Cambridge Analytica.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Those are the guys

I think that's the level of strategy play that.other political parties should be playing, but with a positive message, with a positive vibe, with the right information and the right facts, with a similar level of aggression.

But when there's a huge tide of putrid hate, I mean, like another thing, well like Nazi Germany back in the days, I mean, like not every German was a Nazi. Not every German followed this thing.But I mean like they were part of the silent majority.And being silent is the problem.It's problematic.Cuz I mean like sometimes it's better to do something than do nothing. And it's hard for people to take that step to do something.

Yeah.

And on that note.Thank you very much, Simon.Do you have anything to plug for this winter? 

Let me see.We've got next week, sorry, this week, cuz this is coming out next week.Yes, it is. So yeah, this is coming out after the election. God bless.Yeah.So after all that mayhem, we got on Thursday, this Thursday, we got the Improv comedy Jada Jada are coming, so I'm sure we'll see Rene again here.

And then next month I've got a few bands lined up.I've got the Super awesome, Super Fight the System Samae Koskinen coming to play his gig here.I've also got Kielo Kärkkäinen coming and Hot Heroes, the jazz trio.They're going to come and do something over. So that's three gigs lined up for December. Should be a fun time. Other than that, I mean like check our social media and so on. Facebook, Twitter. Not Twitter, but Facebook. What's the other one? Instagram. You know, I actually left Facebook because I could not stand the… This tide of just so much bad info coming in my direction, it made me sick to my point.

I quit for almost two years and then Twitter, I had to do the same too, because Elon Musk took over and took off all the safety rails.

Yeah, yeah, it's a shit show.

It's weird.And he's from South Africa.

Yeah.

And his father mines diamonds.

Yes.

That's another rabbit hole for like-- 

Oh, man.

We need another hour for that.

Yeah. But the cars are good though.Teslas are good right there.

Yeah.

What?

The Teslas.

I would like to have a Tesla if it didn't have Elon Musk behind it.

Well, you can follow O’Connell’s.We'll post up on all the links when these come out.

Come and try the new menu. Definitely recommend it.

Great snacks and some great meals too. 

And hopefully I'll make it back from America alive.The airports won't be shut down because of riots.

Yeah, best of luck with that, man.

Civil war.Civil war starts.It's not an it's not an impossible.

Exactly. That's the scary part.

Yeah.Yeah.

But you'll be alright, Tam.You're good. And we have faith in the outcome of your elections.

Faith in democracy.